This interview was taken by Lydia Wylie-Kellermann as part of a writing project for Geez Magazine entitled “She is Breathing: Listening for Another World and an End to Empire.” It was published in the Winter Issue.

Lydia Wylie-Kellermann: Where are the moments for you where you are beginning to see a crack in the empire? Where is resurrection alive and being practiced? What is the story that lingers on your heart and keeps you moving forward? Is this the moment we’ve been waiting for? Is another world being birthed before our eyes?

Jonathan Wilson-Hartgrove– One of the young people who’s led the Black Lives Matter movement here is running for City Council. I see hope every time I talk to him.

Guys on North Carolina’s death row have been writing their wisdom to young people in neighborhoods like those where they grew up, talking about what they’ve learned and how to hold onto your humanity in the face of powers that would destroy you. Beautiful stuff.

And I spend a good bit of time these days with white men who have realized that white power is a dead end street and want to let go of power and control and find a better way. This too gives me hope–even for guys like me.